Santorum out

[Hawkman]

Please allow me to post a friendly reminder: There are some basic things to remember during discussions like this one:

1- The American President doesn't really "run" the country. There are much bigger forces in place and any plans they have are usually long term plans, which will include several four year presidential terms. The details of these plans and policies are not made public, so we simply don't know what is happening until it has already happened!

2- No matter which plan or program (i.e. Obama's healthcare idea) is proposed or pushed through, there will be unhappy people! This is true everywhere, including Canada: Many Canadians supported and still want The Gun Registry. Many don't.
So, take ANY political decision, economic decision, social or education decision; they are bound to be criticized by one group or another. The government and the leaders however, have to make these decisions on a regular basis, knowing full well that they'll be alienating some citizens and losing their future votes.

Back to discussion...

[FishingMonkey]

Originally Posted by Hawkman

Please allow me to post a friendly reminder: There are some basic things to remember during discussions like this one:

1- The American President doesn't really "run" the country. There are much bigger forces in place and any plans they have are usually long term plans, which will include several four year presidential terms. The details of these plans and policies are not made public, so we simply don't know what is happening until it has already happened!

2- No matter which plan or program (i.e. Obama's healthcare idea) is proposed or pushed through, there will be unhappy people! This is true everywhere, including Canada: Many Canadians supported and still want The Gun Registry. Many don't.
So, take ANY political decision, economic decision, social or education decision; they are bound to be criticized by one group or another. The government and the leaders however, have to make these decisions on a regular basis, knowing full well that they'll be alienating some citizens and losing their future votes.

Back to discussion...

Very true Hawkman, but it seems like most of them that disagree happen to be on this thread

[JoePa]

He may not "run" the country but he sure has a great influence - for instance - he picks any new supreme court justice - this alone is one of the most important things that can influence the country - he decides what the military will look like and how we handle any wars - he dictates foreign policy - he decides environmental issues - he can push for certain social and economic issues - .etc .etc - so you see - he does have a lot to say as to what goes on in our country - enough so that he can just about ruin it -

[Hawkman]

Originally Posted by JoePa

He may not "run" the country but he sure has a great influence - for instance - he picks any new supreme court justice - this alone is one of the most important things that can influence the country - he decides what the military will look like and how we handle any wars - he dictates foreign policy - he decides environmental issues - he can push for certain social and economic issues - .etc .etc - so you see - he does have a lot to say as to what goes on in our country - enough so that he can just about ruin it -

Fair enough!
So are you saying that George W. Bush had all these powers for EIGHT years?
Let's see what he did then:

- Attacked and invaded Afghanistan for some phony balony reasons! Managing a war on the other side of the planet is more costly than an ordinary citizen can ever imagine!

- Attacked and invaded Iraq for even more bogus reasons, and people didn't say peep to him!? Managing TWO wars on the other side of the planet is more costly than any Ph.D. can ever imagine!!!

- His "foreign policy" was to burn bridges with as many countries as he possibly could, because they were "evil".

- His environmental, social, and economical policies were laughable at best.

So the country was handed over to a new president - from the other party of course - because he appeared to be intelligent and promissed CHANGE. I remember thinking, wow, Americans are smart to choose this guy.
Then almost IMMEDIATELY after he took office, they started criticizing Obama for what a mess the country was in!
I remember thinking, wow, Americans have a shorter attention span than my three year old niece!

It is a known fact that American presidents get way more things DONE in their second terms. They have gained experience and confidence during the first four years and then all the aces come out. Obama is running a very intelligent campaign: He's not beating his chest in public yet, and he's been fairly quiet, just being presidential and avoiding un-necessary hoopla. When the time comes, he will outline and highlight his achievements in his first term and make more promisses for his second term.

America is still at war in Afghanistan & Iraq, and people have not forgotten who got them there a few years ago. Whether Obama is a good or a bad president, he is still the better choice and still has huge support in all kinds of places in the USA.

[FishingMonkey]

Originally Posted by Hawkman

Fair enough!
So are you saying that George W. Bush had all these powers for EIGHT years?
Let's see what he did then:

- Attacked and invaded Afghanistan for some phony balony reasons! Managing a war on the other side of the planet is more costly than an ordinary citizen can ever imagine!

- Attacked and invaded Iraq for even more bogus reasons, and people didn't say peep to him!? Managing TWO wars on the other side of the planet is more costly than any Ph.D. can ever imagine!!!

- His "foreign policy" was to burn bridges with as many countries as he possibly could, because they were "evil".

- His environmental, social, and economical policies were laughable at best.

So the country was handed over to a new president - from the other party of course - because he appeared to be intelligent and promissed CHANGE. I remember thinking, wow, Americans are smart to choose this guy.
Then almost IMMEDIATELY after he took office, they started criticizing Obama for what a mess the country was in!
I remember thinking, wow, Americans have a shorter attention span than my three year old niece!

It is a known fact that American presidents get way more things DONE in their second terms. They have gained experience and confidence during the first four years and then all the aces come out. Obama is running a very intelligent campaign: He's not beating his chest in public yet, and he's been fairly quiet, just being presidential and avoiding un-necessary hoopla. When the time comes, he will outline and highlight his achievements in his first term and make more promisses for his second term.

America is still at war in Afghanistan & Iraq, and people have not forgotten who got them there a few years ago. Whether Obama is a good or a bad president, he is still the better choice and still has huge support in all kinds of places in the USA.

Dang you, socialist, and your facts!!!

[JoePa]

Facts - come on - give me a break will you - you typed facts but I know you really meant farts -

[Gilroy]

Originally Posted by JoePa

Facts - come on - give me a break will you - you typed facts but I know you really meant farts -

Very intelligent reply Joe for a man of your age.

Joe when are you going to stop wrapping youself in that American Flag and wake up and small the coffee.In fact when are your fellow Americans going to waken up.I used to think Americans were are pretty smart race of people.But how can you all be so smart.You all went out and bought houses with next to no money down,took mortgages you all could never repay in homes you could never repay.You voted into office people like GW who could hardly string a sentence together in front of a TV camera and then were prepared to follow him into two phoney wars.

Do you people down there ever take responsbility for anything you have done.I know you are great at pointing the finger at other political parties but forget the mess your party created when in office.So how about admitting your country and countrymen were wrong on a few things.Here are some BAD THINGS YOUR COUNTRY MEN SHOULD STOP DOING

Stop shooting Presidents you dont like,you see most of the population did like them,that is how they were voted in.
Stop going to war with countries you think you can win against,Vietnam,Iraq,Afganistan,it always ends in tears.
Stop being friends with bad people Noriega,Sudame Hussain,Bin Laden,they all became your enemies in the end.
Stop going to war while hiding the fact by supporting groups who say they are supporting you but lie.
Stop lying to the World,nobody believes you anymore.

Dont get me wrong all the Americans I ever meet were good people, its just feels like in the last 15 years or so you all seem to have lost your way.I hope you all find your way . I feel us Canadians are like your little brothers ocassionally we need to and will give you a kick in the pants.

[skypilot]

Gilroy, let me clear up something. The housing bust was primarily due to the US Gov. and their Affirmative Action subsides(mortgages) given to people and guaranteed by Freddie/Fannie that never were going to be able to payed back. It was what was once a helping hand turned into an entitlement. No one hardly looked at a credit app.(Part Gov edict, part greed)

When Gov. told banks to increase these "bad risk" loans they did...they knew the Gov. would back the loan. Then these and other "good" low risk loans were bundled and sold as good investements to Wall Street investors.

This game could only be played so long until it failed as 1 by 1 the bad risk mortgage holders defaulted on their mortgages. and as the economy tanked others defaulted even those good risk. It caught every bank, investor, and Wall Street investor holding worthless paper.

On top of the above, speculators were constantly betting housing was their golden goose, after all sales were skyrocketing and data showed it(and mortgage loans were easy to get ). Little did they know of the bad risk behind the high sales numbers. Over building, over selling and a self fulfilling prophecy fed on it's own bad risk loan/sell data. It looked like business was booming. that drove home values up. Guess what? Now the bank would loan the same bad risk folk 125% of the appraised equity of the home that they were going to lose in the future.(of course not everyone could see this bust coming)

Then the bad risk folk started to loose their homes. Jobs loss followed and the rest is history.

Everyone got bailed out that should not have and vice versa.

Yes, America has been fighting several wars. Alot of it because of 9/11. I suspect any western democratic society would do the same and yes it cost money.

Now for a moment take all this into consideration and all sane people would expect a POTUS to lead the people or at the least not hurt the economy any more than it already had suffered.

Then as the POTUS, Obama showed his environmental butt over the BP incident and immediately cost the economy 80,000 petrochemical and supporting jobs.
He actively helps the Unions, their wage increases, and benefits when there are less and less taxpayers working to pay their demanded increases.

As POTUS, thumb you nose at the CDN pipeline, turn the NLRB loose on Boeing, pull alredy approved and issued environmental permits costing thousands of more jobs. Order a fighter jet from SAmer. rather than Canada.

American's don't want the gov. in their healthcare, not like the Bill that was originally started and before the US Supreme Court now.
No American wants the Gov to be in control of their life so much so that the Gov can say "Im paying for you healthcare you'll do as I say", If you speed, you may wreck and cause hospital bills so I'll roadside seize your car without due process, wear a helment or pay the fine.

In spite of all the bad you think of America we are without a doubt, no holds barred, Grade A, US Choice, FREE. And pretty much in any and all ways. No other country can claim that, NONE. We just don't want the Gov. that much into our everyday personal decisions.

I was raised under that freedom. You were raised differently Im guessing.

All America needs is less Obama and anybody that will just stop making bad decisions that continue to hurt America's chance to recover.

[Pointersrule]

Didnt Obama win w/ something like 52% of the Vote? I wouldnt call that all that popular......it seems that half the country liked him and the other half does not.......it wouldnt be that hard for the scale to tip in the other direction w/ that margin....agree? I believe Obama is just a Puppet who's strings are being pulled by the powers that helped him get elected and funded his Campaign......people give him way too much credit......he's a great speaker...but can he deliver? Time will tell.

[Hawkman]

skypilot, I've made some comments in blue colour. (Yes colour and not color)

Originally Posted by skypilot

...
Yes, America has been fighting several wars. A lot of it because of 9/11. I suspect any western democratic society would do the same and yes it cost money.
Cause and effect principal. Although in this case the "cause" is still being questioned, but let's not open that can of worms again here on this thread

Now for a moment take all this into consideration and all sane people would expect a POTUS to lead the people or at the least not hurt the economy any more than it already had suffered.
So you are saying that the economy should take priority over everything else? At all costs? Even the environment?

Then as the POTUS, Obama showed his environmental butt over the BP incident and immediately cost the economy 80,000 petrochemical and supporting jobs.
So now we should feel sorry for a super rich OIL company who has shown no respect for the environment and worry about their employees? In this day and age nobody cries for the typewriter repairman or the captain of Exxon Valdez for that matter. This is a POTUS who promissed CHANGE instead of the same old, same old. Apparently he has the 'stones' to stand up to a careless, greedy oil giant. You should be a PROUD American for that, instead of wishing to bring your country down to the lower standards held by those "other countries".

He actively helps the Unions, their wage increases, and benefits when there are less and less taxpayers working to pay their demanded increases.
Nobody likes unions, well maybe unless you are IN some kind of union. There were 120,000 jobs added in the USA in March. Less than expected, but still 120,000 more taxpayers. Obama "helping" the unions however, can also be viewed as him standing up to big business and helping out the little guys. I don't know any details about this by the way but I believe there are usually two sides to each coin.

As POTUS, thumb you nose at the CDN pipeline, turn the NLRB loose on Boeing, pull alredy approved and issued environmental permits costing thousands of more jobs. Order a fighter jet from SAmer. rather than Canada.
I suppose any American President has a team of advisors on various issues. He could be getting bad advise, but every guy on the top has been and will be in the same situation. Big business and forces with influence are always pulling some strings here and there when MONEY is involved, and nobody's perfect. When you elect a President, you should trust his decisions not criticize his every move! You sure seem to support the previous administration's decisions without question!

American's don't want the gov. in their healthcare, not like the Bill that was originally started and before the US Supreme Court now.
No American wants the Gov to be in control of their life so much so that the Gov can say "Im paying for you healthcare you'll do as I say", If you speed, you may wreck and cause hospital bills so I'll roadside seize your car without due process, wear a helment or pay the fine.
Sorry, but that sounds paranoid. We have free healthcare in Canada. I have not felt any negative effects as a result of having free healthcare. Heck we just got rid of the Gun Registry! Democracy is alive and well here

In spite of all the bad you think of America we are without a doubt, no holds barred, Grade A, US Choice, FREE. And pretty much in any and all ways. No other country can claim that, NONE. We just don't want the Gov. that much into our everyday personal decisions.
America has a lot of GOOD. It is okay for you to constantly shout USA #1 , and print it on every T-shirt and bikini. Every nation must be respected for loving their country. You need to respect your fellow Americans as well, and guess what, every single one of them will have a different view on every issue that you wish to discuss in detail

I was raised under that freedom. You were raised differently Im guessing.
No absolute freedom anywhere in the world, no matter where one is born and raised.

All America needs is less Obama and anybody that will just stop making bad decisions that continue to hurt America's chance to recover.
So who to replace Obama with then? Who was the last American President that made nothing but GOOD decisions?! It is the easiest thing in the world to criticize someone and say you don't want him. Problem is, that what you do want is another unknown person who will make yet unknown decisions in the future. Decisions that will be very easy to criticize by yourself or others!!!